107. Dr Mary Talley Bowden and Ivermectin

Today I talk with Dr. Mary Talley Bowden, MD. She is an otolaryngologist in Houston, TX. She is a plaintiff in Apter v Department of Health and Human Services. She tells her story how she had her privileges suspend at a hospital that she had never seen a patient at and she was notified about this by a reporter looking for the story. https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-ivermectin-fda-doctors-lawsuit-bbc8d4fc726c08940ae4b0dad70170e0?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
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107. Dr Mary Tally Bowden
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Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: [00:00:00] Paxlovid. What a horrible drug. 44 severe drug reactions. Okay. Ivermectin has zero drug, severe drug reactions, interactions. And one of those interactions is with statins, which is the most widely prescribed drug. in our country and you cannot take statins with PaxLavid. Tops it to the liver and kidneys.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: It contains an HIV drug with a black box warning in it. It leaves a very metallic taste in the mouth. It's poorly tolerated. It's been shown to have increased risk of rebound infection. And then a treatment course costs about 530. To really a trash drug.

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Nurse Kelly: Welcome to After Hours with Dr. Sigoloff. On this podcast, you will be encouraged to question everything

Nurse Kelly: and to have the courage to stand for the truth.

Nurse Kelly: And now to your host, Dr. Sigoloff.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you for joining me again. I want to give a quick shout out to all of my Patreon supporters. We have an anonymous. Donor giving $20 and 20 cents a month. We have the Planned Demic Reprimand rank at $17 and 76 cents. With Ty Charles Tinfoil, Dr. Anna Frank, Brian Shell.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Megan, and Brantley. We have the self made 10 level with Kevin, and Pat and Bev. We have the Refine Not Burn tier with Linda, Emmy, Joe, PJ, Rebecca, Marcus, [00:03:00] Elizabeth, Dawn, Jennifer, Ken, Rick, and Mary. Addison Mulder made his own 3 level, and Frank made his own 1. 50 level. And then we have the Courageous Contagious tier at 1 a month with Amanda, Jay, SpessNasty, Darrell, Susan, BB King, and Caleb.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I just want to remind everybody, if you're interested in switching to a new way of shopping, that you can cut some of these big box market stores out, go to Patriotswitch. com, slash, after hours. That's Patriotswitch. com, slash, after hours. And we'll get you information about that, and you can join my team.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Today I have a very special guest, Dr. Mary Talley Bowden. Now, she is, has learned all about controversy over the past few years with Ivermectin and other issues like that. You may have heard her in the news recently. Her case is continuing to go, which is amazing because most of these cases are being stopped and they're being dismissed before they even get any sort of ruling on.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But Dr. Bowden, thank you so much for coming on with me today. Oh, thanks so much for having me, Sam. Tell me what's, how [00:04:00] your story started and then lead us to today.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: I'm a ear, nose, and throat doctor. I'm in Houston, Texas, solo practice. And when COVID started, I had patients coming to see me because they were sick, because ENTs do treat respiratory illnesses.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: And I had access to a test for COVID that was a saliva test. And so my little practice exploded because people didn't want the swab, so they'd come to me to test using the saliva test. And when they tested positive, I'd say, go see your primary care doctor. As we all know, the primary care doctors weren't doing anything.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: They were shutting their doors. They were telling patients, just do nothing until you can't breathe. And that didn't sit well with me. So initially, I just did things like breathing treatments. I would do some steroids and antibiotics. Then monoclonal antibodies came around, so I started giving monoclonal antibodies, and those worked really well, but then the government started to ration them, and they became more and [00:05:00] more difficult to get.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: So I turned to ivermectin, I did my own research, I dug into it very deeply, and then after I was satisfied that it was safe then I tried it out. I was a little worried because monoclonal antibodies worked so well, and I wasn't sure if ivermectin was going to work. But what I found was that it did work and I didn't always use ivermectin or I used other things in combination, but so far I've treated now over 6, 000 patients and everybody that's received early treatment is alive and well.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: One of the things that happened during this time is because I was doing a lot of testing, I started seeing patients. And noting whether or not they were vaccinated, the positives or the not positives. And what I found was that people that were vaccinated were getting COVID just as often and they were just as sick, if not sicker.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: So I started speaking out about this. And in Houston the hospital here, Methodist Hospitals, the first hospital in the country to mandate [00:06:00] the vaccine. And they were quite proud of this and I had privileges there, but I was very loosely affiliated with them. I'd actually never used the hospital. I just had it as a just in case situation.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: If I had a patient that needed to be hospitalized, but I started speaking out about the vaccine mandates because I had patients coming to me very distraught who were scared to get the shot. I was seeing how it wasn't effective. I hadn't seen a lot of complications from it, but I also saw that it wasn't, didn't seem to be working.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: And I actually went to Methodist about this. I'm like, I'm seeing all these breakthrough cases. Are you seeing the same thing? And they just said, oh no. They just dismissed me. So I just started speaking out on Twitter. I said things like vaccine mandates are wrong and ivermectin works. So I was actually pretty conservative and cautious.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: About what I said back then but they didn't like it and they suspended my privileges and they said it was because I was spreading dangerous misinformation. And the way I found out was through a [00:07:00] reporter. So I got a text message from a reporter on a Friday afternoon, asked me to confirm, is it true that you've lost your pregnant, that your privileges have been suspended at Methodist?

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: And I did a double take. I'm like, no, I don't know what you're talking about. And then I go to Twitter and they're tweeting about it. The, so my world changed after that. I had the media all after me, but I have decided to fight back.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Here we are. Wow. So you're telling me that this hospital institution, the Methodist hospital, which is big in Texas, I'm from Texas originally.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And instead of telling you, Hey, we're going to suspend you and keeping it quiet and respectful of your privacy. They went to the media. Exactly. It's

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: not been done before. To my knowledge, I'm not aware of any other doctor being treated this way by a hospital. A hospital that I didn't even use. So it's not like I was, in their administration or.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: It's [00:08:00] absolutely ridiculous.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Unfortunately, I've become familiar with some legal doctrinal terms, and one of them is the chilling effect. And what the idea is, what they do is they make an example out of someone like you, someone like me, so that other doctors don't dare speak. We see this in some religious communities where if you say something, you'll be literally thrown off a building or crucified or killed if you say something that goes against the particular religion.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And that's the chilling effect. That's the idea that everyone is too afraid to say the truth. Because of what could happen, and that's clearly what they're doing to you.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: They call those struggle sessions, right? In communist China, where they make a, they publicly shame you to keep other people from doing the same thing.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: And that's exactly what they did. But they stepped on the wrong hornet and I am fighting back as hard as I can. I'm not giving up.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I love it. And so you sued some people, is that correct? And who are you suing?

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: I sued [00:09:00] Methodist. I sued, first I sued Methodist to try to get their financial records because they're a non profit.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Their last balance sheet showed that they have over 13. 5 billion in assets. So we're trying to figure out who's paying them why they're the first hospital in the country to mandate the shots. Unfortunately, that suit was dismissed and I my fund funding ran out. So that's on hold but also suing them for defamation.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: And that suit was also dismissed, but that's on appeal. But the biggest lawsuit is against the F D A and that's with Dr. Paul Merrick and Robert Apter. And it is over the Ivermectin it controversy, although it extends beyond Ivermectin in a lot of ways it's. Basically, the FDA sent out that infamous tweet of the attractive health care worker nuzzling the horse.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: And you don't even need to know the caption, but the caption was, you're not a cow, you're not a horse. Seriously, y'all [00:10:00] stop it. And that tweet went viral and there's also a lot of information on their website, basically telling you not to take ivermectin for COVID and the FDA. That's not their role. Their role is to approve medications, make sure medications are being marketed appropriately, but they have no say over how drugs are used.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: They're not allowed to dictate or direct patients or physicians on how to use the medications. But that's. That's what they're doing. And because of what they did, we've had issues with pharmacies not filling. We've had complaints against us from the medical boards. We've had, the issue with Methodist Hospital suspending my privileges.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: So it was a a whole bunch of issues following that. And initially the case was dismissed. But we just went on appeal the fifth circuit and they Allow are [00:11:00] allowing us to move forward. So they basically dismissed our motion the motion to dismiss so now it goes back to the courts

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: before you get too far along you mentioned something about marketing of drugs in the fda and I want to Ask you this question.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I already know the answer to this but for the listeners perspective, marketing of drugs. Now, what exactly does that mean? Does that mean that if they're in charge of the marketing of the drug, does that mean that they can tell the doctor what to do?

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: No, it's just that they want to make sure that the drug is being marketed in an accurate fashion, right?

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: And I don't know too much about... The, details on that but they're not supposed to tell patients, okay don't take ivermectin for COVID. That's going beyond what their role is because every patient is unique and. It's really, you, there's not a one size fits all approach and, you're a doctor, it's, you, there's a reason that we sit down in a room with a patient and have a private conversation and it, every [00:12:00] patient is a little bit different, there are nuances to it and we don't need the government telling every patient and every doctor how to treat every disease.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: What I really want to ram home for the listener is that, The marketing of drugs has to do with the pharmaceuticals, not with us as doctors. We, as doctors, use medications off label all the time. 30 40 percent of the medications we use are used off label. But the marketing has to do with the pharmaceutical companies, which is interesting because these pharmaceutical companies are saying to use Paxlovid off label.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: They've actually recently got in trouble, maybe two years ago or a year ago, got in trouble for suggesting it be used. Inappropriately, which is off label use, and they cannot do that. We as physicians can. Yeah,

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: exactly. And Paxlovid, what a horrible drug. If I may, I will talk about Paxlovid for a second.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Please. 44 major, 44 severe drug reactions, okay? Ivermectin has zero drug, [00:13:00] severe drug reactions, interactions. And one of those interactions is with statins, which is the most widely prescribed drug In our country and you cannot take statins with paxlovid. It is toxic to the liver and kidneys.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: It contains an HIV drug with a black box warning in it. It leaves a very metallic taste in the mouth. It's poorly tolerated. It's been shown to have increased risk of rebound infection. And then a treatment course costs about 530. Wow.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I thought Ivermectin was expensive. Really a trash

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: drug.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Yeah,

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: exactly.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Of course it's, I'm sure it's cut, the government, it's the tax, taxpayers paying for that.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow, that's, and it's EUA, which is, blows my mind that they're still allowing things to be emergency use authorization when there is no more emergency. Exactly. The big news that I really want to have you talk about because this is really big and you mentioned it is that tweet.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And that [00:14:00] tweet was mentioned specifically in court, in your appeal. And the FDA lawyer said something that was quite interesting. It's almost like they're standing there pointing both directions saying, he did it.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Yes, yeah, they're claiming that they they're admitting claiming that they've never stopped doctors from prescribing it and they don't have the authority to stop doctors from prescribing it. Yeah, the judge, Judge Elrod was great with her questions. She basically really challenged them and said stop it.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Is that a command? Or is that just a suggestion? Because in an English class, if you said stop it, that would be a command, right? And because they kept saying, oh, no, it's just a quip, just a little funny, casual remark. But sadly that remark caused a lot of problems.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, it's interesting because that tweet and that remark, I believe is part of what my hospital commander at the time used to make her [00:15:00] decision as a nurse to ban the off label use of ivermectin, which I don't know if it caused or allowed the deaths of any patients, may have caused or allowed the deaths of many patients.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I do know my hospital commander specifically called our pharmacist and said, do not dispense those prescriptions that Dr. Sigoloff

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: I was on the phone today with a pharmacist who cited the FDA as a reason that they wouldn't dispense the medication. Wow.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: In Texas, where the appeal just happened not even maybe almost exactly a month ago, a couple of days longer than a month ago.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Yeah. No it's a lot of pointing fingers.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Oh, it's our policy. It's our policy. Who? Ours, yeah. And I keep saying what's going to happen? Are you going to, can I send a patient to you when they get worse? Cause since you're in charge, right? Since you're determining what they can take.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, I've had a [00:16:00] pharmacist scream at me and slam a phone down for hydroxychloroquine. And, I get it if you're uncomfortable to prescribe something. Cause there's medications that I'm not comfortable prescribing. And I don't scream at the patient and slam a door in their face. I tell them, these are the risks and benefits of that.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I, for my, either medical reasons or personal religious beliefs, don't prescribe that. Let me get you in touch with a doctor that can.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Now, the pharmacist hung up on me today, too. I started asking her about the LD50 of ivermectin. I told her what it was, and I told her what the iver, and she hung up on me.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: She didn't have an answer,

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: what is the LD50 of ivermectin? Is it as much as your stomach can fit?

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: It's 25 milligrams per kilogram. And which we use for COVID is 0. 4 milligrams per

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: kilogram. 25 milligrams per kilogram is, and LD50 means the lethal dose for 50 percent of the population. So that means there's another 50 percent that could go all the [00:17:00] way up to maybe 50 milligrams per kilogram.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: We're talking about entire kilograms. That's a meal of ivermectin.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Yeah, it's an enormous amount and that's one of the things I did before I started using it is I searched the literature for intentional or accidental overdoses to see, because you look for any drug. You can find, any drug, you'll find overdose information, right?

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Whether it's accidental or intentional. And I couldn't find anything on ivermectin. So I thought that was a good

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: sign. A drug that is over the counter in many third world countries, and in Tennessee and New Hampshire. And I'm not saying that Tennessee and New Hampshire are third world countries, I'm saying they're probably actually ahead of the rest of the states.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Exactly, yeah. What is what are some of the things that you can't talk about because I understand it's a case still in play and you've appealed now, but can you get into some more of the details? Were you in court [00:18:00] when the FDA lawyer said that they can't restrict doctors prescribing?

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Yes, it was wonderful to hear that it was the highlight of the last three years was hearing that hearing the judge questioning that lawyer was wonderful. And it's, if it's on Twitter, so there were recordings of it here in there, but the judge was wonderful in the way that she just brought out.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Brought out the ludicrous ludicrously of it all with her questioning. So now, yeah, I don't know what's going to happen next because there's a couple different directions that could go. And it's hard for me to, and I feel like I've had to get a crash course in, in law and the legal field.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: I don't know if you feel the same way I'm learning all sorts of things. And so I. Okay. I have to be careful what I say because I just don't know.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, I know. I understand that. And what's interesting about this [00:19:00] is, even though all the lawyers that I've interacted with, and I got about a message from three or four lawyers when your case, when that information came out about it, and they're like, look at this.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: They go, it was a joyous day for all of us but there's certain angles that you and I can see that the lawyer can't because there's things that we understand that they don't know, don't have exposure to, and it's, and so we, that is one thing that all the doctors standing on the right side of history, as we will determine in the future that there's just, there's so many different angles that you can come at this, and there's stuff That we've had to, we've had to learn a lot of law, unfortunately, to be able to defend ourselves, whether it be with the pharmacist that you're talking to and saying all okay you want to take the responsibility of this patient having a bad outcome because you're practicing medicine now without a license.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: You're not just preventing me from doing it. You're actually doing it.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Yeah. No, I wish we could figure out a way to deal with these pharmacists because I don't, it differs by state, but in Texas, they're allowed to refuse. The medication. They're legally, they're [00:20:00] protected. Because of the abortion pill and that, that's what they're using to defend this, but that's not the spirit of that law.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Because now that they're abusing the spirit of that law.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Right, And I don't know the order number and I believe, it's been a while since I've looked at this, but I believe there was an executive order from Greg Abbott, the governor, who he said that you can't prevent. Use of any medication off label basically for and he was that was for hydroxychloroquine and for ivermectin so that pharmacists couldn't say oh it's not indicated for that So we can't dispense it and he gave this order saying that you can't prevent that you also Shouldn't be able to take doctors to the medical board and destroy them because they gave medications that are used off label

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Yeah, I need to dig that up because yeah, it's still a something I'm dealing with daily

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, I think I found it.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: If I can find it again, I'll send it to you, but I believe it was a year or two ago that I found it because I was trying to defend myself. The first time I was suspended, I've been suspended twice [00:21:00] now, which is the second suspension was illegal and unauthorized from the start.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Yeah, are you able to practice right now? Or how's.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So I'm completely out of the military. I'm just waiting on an Arizona osteopathic license which is just administrative reasons. There's no controversy that's keeping that from happening.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: But is it a problem that you're suspended?

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Does that...

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I hope it doesn't become a problem, because I just turned in a a summary yesterday of all of the issues showing how they, they've... They've retaliated against me multiple times in multiple ways, and from different areas. As I'm a whistleblower, two times over whistleblower.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: One where I blew the whistle on my hospital commander not following the Secretary of Defense guidance on vaccine exemptions, and on the DMED data. Yeah. So it's, yeah, there's, and my lawsuit, as I'm speaking on September 15th, because this is going to come out at a later [00:22:00] date my lawsuit against the secretary of defense, I had six courses of action and causes of action.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And the most recent date that we had the judge threw out five of them, leaving only one behind, which, there's some egregious things that they've done to me and it's, I hope to make change for all of the doctors that are in the army so that they don't have the chilling effect on them.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Yeah, I was talking to somebody who's at the VA today, and he said, yeah, I don't think my doctor could prescribe ivermectin for me. It'd be a huge, is that the true? If you tried to, through the VA system, tried to prescribe ivermectin, would you be flagged?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I don't know anything about the VA system.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It is different than the army system. So the issue that I had was TRICARE would not cover hydroxychloroquine unless they had a prior authorization. And that's been for years. And so I just gave the patient a hand script and I said, here, go fill this. You're going to have to pay cash. And they happily took it to a pharmacy and the pharmacist, most of them happily filled it.[00:23:00]

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Because capitalism is a great way to run the country. Unfortunately, it's not really. A pure capitalist society right now. It's more of a crony capitalism where the guys who are at the top can pay to have things done, be done the way they want.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Exactly.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: So in the army, in the military, do you have military pharmacies or do they go to any pharmacy?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Most posts have a pharmacy there in the clinic. And so if it's covered by TRICARE, then they'll just give it to them. And that's what I remember. That's how the ivermectin was. for a while until my hospital commander said no, and she took the responsibility on herself as she signed that memo herself and did not reference any higher authority.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But she did reference the fact that she was a registered nurse and she was able to review the information and make medical decisions as a registered nurse, which is well outside the scope of practice for a registered nurse. And I went to the FBI. I went to the Local police, the local sheriff, I went [00:24:00] to Texas Medical Board, I went to Texas Attorney General, I went to Arizona Attorney General, Arizona Medical Board, Arizona Nursing Board, and to CID, which is like the Army's version of the FBI, and everyone blew me off.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: No one cared that we had a nurse on post using her military authority inappropriately practicing medicine without a license.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's unbelievable. It's awful. And I still hope that the justice is appropriately handled and that she goes through the legal system at some point through this process, through all the different lawsuits that I will be filing in the future. And that the public is protected, moreover. That's the biggest thing.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: We don't allow people who don't have a, the ability to practice medicine, whether it be doctors or nurse practitioners or PAs, physicians assistants, to practice medicine without a license because it's dangerous. They don't know how these medications work. They don't know how to make a shared decision making process.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: They just she just commanded that these decisions were made.[00:25:00]

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Yep. Yep. It's very scary what's happening to our medical system. So a lot of third party interference.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Exactly. How are most of your patients as have you noticed a, some patients leaving or many patients say, Hey, doc, keep doing it. Keep fighting.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Everybody knows where I stand, so I don't see the people that don't agree with me. Yeah, it's always. Fine in my office because people like me and they come to me because but it's just it's weird going outside of my office more than anything because I have people that I used to be friends with that don't speak to me anymore and doctors that don't, distance themselves from me. And I get, I am self conscious when I go to, sport, my kids sporting events and, the school stuff. And [00:26:00] so the office part's fine. It's just outside the office that's unpleasant.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, I think that's one of the good things that's come out of this.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I always like to look for the good things that are happening in the terrible tragedies of COVID and all that. But the mask has come off people. I know who my friends are and I know who my friends aren't. And it's been shocking at times and it's sad at times. It's

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: sad about people that you just didn't realize, right?

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: But yes, there's a whole new crop of people that. I like now so yeah,

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: and I'm sure you're similar in this that like I've had relationships with people now because of covid that I never would have met otherwise and it's just amazing how we can bond on these issues. Agree yes,

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: but it is it feels very black and white.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: And I don't know, maybe I'm sure there's a population out there is really doesn't care about COVID anymore, but it doesn't seem that way. At least I don't know if you feel that way. I feel [00:27:00] like people feel so strongly about it either way.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, I wouldn't care about it if I wasn't so wrapped up in anymore.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: My wife is definitely done with caring about COVID. Yeah, but it's the unfortunate part is it's become a litmus test. It's okay is that doctor still saying we should take these shots? Exactly. After we've, we know that it's a bioweapon by public source documentation, go back and check out episode 33 if you have questions about that, where I show you the redaction codes they used.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: They say, we redacted this part because it would inhibit the application of a state of the art U. S. weapons system. And those are the redaction codes used on Pfizer documents that were retrieved through FOIA from by Judicial Watch. It's shocking. Yeah, I want to see that. I'll send you a link to it after this.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's yeah, it's I put it up a year over a year ago and it's so the Bravo four. B4 redaction code means that it would [00:28:00] inhibit the application of a state of the art U. S. weapon system. And some of those documents that I used in that episode were re released about a year later, and one of the testing sites was exposed, and it was Shanghai, China.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Imagine that. And all of the lipid nanoparticle information was what was, not all of it, most of it, was what was redacted. Where it came from, some of the more complex names of these lipid nanoparticles they didn't really care about the mRNA so much, it was the lipid nanoparticle that was redacted.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Why do you think that? I think the lipid nanoparticle is the bioweapon, and I think it's 50 percent or more of the problem. That's

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: interesting. Not the spike protein.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I think the spike protein may cause, yeah, I think it may cause some problems, and I think it's 50 percent or less of the problem, and may also be a red herring to throw people off the scent, because if you notice, a lot of the new vaccines that are old vaccines, they're putting these lipid nanoparticles in them.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Why?[00:29:00] Yeah. And one of the lipid nanoparticles, or two of them, DSPC and DSPE, I found a patent at the U. S. Patent Office that said that they were specifically designed to cross the blood brain barrier. That's not good. That's a difficult thing to do. Why would you put it in this shot that's allegedly staying in our arm?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Exactly. You have no intention of it staying in our arm. The intent was for it to go to the brain.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: That's awful. I did not

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: know that. And that was actually the basis for the medical exemptions I was providing was these lipid nanoparticles. I think it was ALC0315, ALC03, and then DSPE, sorry, I'm forgetting one of the numbers.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But if you look at the safety data sheets, it says for experimental use only, not for human use, not for veterinary use. Wow. And just because the FDA says that they're okay does not mean that they're actually safe. And they [00:30:00] had redacted, or classified toxicology reports on the safety data sheets.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Meaning, someone's classifying this, we don't know who.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's awful. And that's what I've contributed to this fight, is that information. That was the angle that I was looking at this from. And that's what I was able to put a affidavit in Robert V. Austin, which unfortunately has now been dismissed, like many of these, because there's no more mandate for the Army.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's equivalent to saying, Your Honor, he burned my house down. Sam, you don't have a house, because he burned it. Yeah, but you don't have a case, because you don't have a house. He couldn't have burned it, because it's gone. You don't have one.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's crazy.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Do you think they'll bring back the mandates in the military?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: They got rid of them but there is lots of concern that with this new strain of COVID shot or whatever it is that there'll be another mandate soon. And the [00:31:00] legitimate concern is they have the mandate on the books long enough to either pressure people to get it or to kick out 8, 500 plus.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: troops out of the entire military, which is what happened, and then get rid of it so that all those cases become moot and then reenact it again once they've all become moot and out of the court. Oh, when all of these have been illegal since the start.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: 85 members of the military were

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: discharged? 8, 500, so 8, 000, over 8, 500 have been discharged for refusing to get the vaccine.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Wow. And do you know what the percentage

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: is? I don't. Those are numbers of people specifically discharged for not getting the vaccine. But I know for a fact that here at Fort Huachuca Major General Hale was kicking people out because they quote refused to train.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And they refused to train because he would not allow them into the schoolhouse unless they had the shot. So they weren't allowed in because they didn't have the shot, but they were discharged as a [00:32:00] refusal to train. So those don't go towards that 8, 500

right? That's awful

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: So is that a different is that it says it is it that I don't know much about the military So I may be asking a very stupid question. No, so is that a dishonorable discharge If you refuse to train, is that a big deal?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It might be less than honorable, or honorable under general. So there's honorable under, and I may have this wrong please don't torch me in the comments.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Honorable general under honorable, and then less than honorable, or other than honorable, and then less than honorable. Less than honorable is equivalent to a felony, like you lose your ability to purchase firearms and things like that. I did interview a doctor recently and he was a family medicine doc, a DO just like myself.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: We actually went to the same residency program, never met each other. And he quit wearing the mask because he didn't want to lie anymore. And they gave him an other than honorable discharge. [00:33:00] Which affects... Benefits like VA benefits and GI Bill benefits and other benefits other than just potentially having difficulty getting employed.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: That's awful.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Was there anything else that you wanted to cover before we?

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Yeah, we've covered the gist of my, all my drama. There's

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Hopefully it's good news next time, right?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And do you have a... Do you have a website or any sort of place where people can get information on you, or where they can support you, or give you encouragement?

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: My website is BreatheMD. org, and then I'm active on Twitter, and that's at MDBreathe.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: All right. Thank you so much. And keep up the fight. You're not [00:34:00] alone. We're all of us on this side are fighting and standing with you. And I'm proud to be standing next to doctors like you and anyone else who's refused the shot. And even those that got the shot and who didn't know what the shot was and then now have learned and they're standing on this side.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I'm proud to be standing next to all of you.

Dr. Mary Talley Bowden: Likewise. I feel very much the same. Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there, in duty uniform of the day, the full armor of God, let's all make courage more contagious than fear.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Doesn't dinner sound great as it's cooking? This dinner is from Riverbend Ranch, which always provides prime or high choice, has never been given hormones. never been given antibiotics, never been given [00:35:00] mRNA vaccines. It's raised in the USA, it's processed in the USA. In fact, it's fully vertically integrated, which means that they own the cow, it gives birth to the calf, it's raised on their fields, and then taken to their butcher, and then shipped to you.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And if we compare... What we can buy from River Bend Ranch to four other major state companies that sell bundles that have ribeyes and other meat in it, it can be as much as 184 to 59 less expensive. It's a great price value and it's a delicious piece of meat. Check out...

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: MyCleanBeef. com slash after hours. That's MyCleanBeef. com slash after hours. MyCleanBeef. com slash after hours.

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